Wednesday, April 3, 2013

BREAKING NEWS: Lyoness in trouble in home country Austria?

Lyoness, founded in Austria in 2003, is a very strange mix of business. Majority of the business appears to be a shopping loyalty program that basically has the merchant offering rebates, and some of the rebate goes to the shopper, and some of the rebate goes to the shopper's upline. Shopping builds up "units", which results in gift certificates that can be redeemed at more Lyoness participating merchants. However, it is the ability to directly PURCHASE the units that made Lyoness a potential Ponzi scheme.

It was revealed that on March 30th, 2013, ten years after Lyoness opened, hundreds of Lyoness members are banding together to launch class action lawsuits against Lyoness. And it is confirmed that Lyoness had previously settled many of these cases out of court and just refunded the members' money, presumably for the "purchased" units.

Search of news archives also revealed that the Lyoness is also under investigation for being a Ponzi/pyramid scheme by the Public Prosecutor's Office (White Collar Crime division).

Details at
http://behindmlm.com/companies/lyoness-lawsuits-and-investigation-in-austria/
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50 comments:

  1. Interesting, there are many hundreds of members in Australia asking for refunds now. And in fact the company are holding an emergency meeting on 12th April 2013 in Sydney to decide what to do. Lyoness Australia has already refunded over 300 members for their purchased units. Your information on the class action in Austria is very interesting as it has been confirmed by the Sydney Office that the founder of Lyoness Hubert is moving to the USA to live! Maybe he is leaving Austria before he goes to jail!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Anonymous, I realise your post is quite old, I am a member of Lyoness in Australia, would you have any info. or sites I might be able to see regarding Lyoness in Australia refunding over 300 members for their purchased units, I have funds in my account and I want to purchase Gift Cards to the value of $600.00 to purchase Visa Cards to pay my rent and shop out my position with Lyoness as I have always thought it was not going to work for me, being a pensioner I don't buy a lot of things. I am having all sorts of trouble with my recommender, and no help from Lyoness, as they say I have to speak to my recommender. Any info. you could provide would be helpful. I have a feeling I am not going to get the Gift Cards that I have already put an Order in for, I just want out.....

      Delete
    2. What a load of BS. Lyoness has just been partnered with Mastercard and a Mastercard debit card will be launched in Europe on Nov 8, 2014 followed by Australia in 2015. Do you really think Mastercard would partner with a ponzi scheme?? I don't know of any Australians who have asked for money back - only one who didn't understand it properly.

      Delete
    3. If a company cannot prove its own legitimacy, and must rely on a partner's legitimacy and its affiliates / minions to make such illogical arguments, then perhaps it is not so legitimate after all.

      People have made "X couldn't have partnered with a scam!" arguments long before you did. TVI Express once even recruited an Indonesian provincial POLICE CHIEF before it was busted in Indonesia as a pyramid scheme. George W. Bush once posed a photo with a fake "navy commander" who used that photo to raise million for a fake charity. Phil Ming Xu got selfies with Steve Wozniak and used it to promote his WCM ponzi scheme.

      So stop making nonsense arguments.

      Delete
    4. IN REPLY TO ANONYMOUS ......WHAT A LOAD OF GARBAGE. I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET MY $3000 BACK SINCE MARCH THIS YEAR. ALL LYONESS DO IS GIVE YOU THE RUNAROUND AND HOPE YOU GO AWAY. WELL I HAVE STRAIGHT TO CONSUMER AFFAIRS, ACCC AND THE MEDIA. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM ANY OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD TROUBLE GETTING THEIR MONEY REFUNDED AND DISCUSS A CLASS ACTION AGAINST LYONESS AND ALSO THE RECOMMENDERS WHO ARE SPRUKING THIS CRAP. ALSO ANYONE KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE ACCC COURT HEARING????

      Delete
    5. I also am trying to confirm that the ACCC hearing was dismissed in less than 20 minutes. In the meantime, I will continue to shop with Lyoness merchants and enjoy all the benefits as promised. Best deal at moment is Woolies groceries and fuel at 12% through Groupon merchant. You then get 10% off Masters and a decent bottles of plonk from BWS. A pretty good scam in my opinion. Also just got extra 7% off wifeys new watch from Prouds in their half price sale $ 900 watch for $ 420 !!

      Delete
    6. According the Lexology, any hearing won't happen until 2015.

      http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=75172287-149a-4fbd-b512-7a673c9d6dd4

      Enjoy the benefits, but don't pay them any money. EVER. :)

      Delete
  2. I have seen this kind of publicity for companies before – and almost always, it was the precursor to the end of a company.

    In any case, why would anyone join a company with this much bad press?

    Who in good conscience could recommend it to anyone, much less their friends or family?

    http://mlmtheamericandreammadenightmare.blogspot.com/2012/09/lyoness-is-lie-and-hubert-freidl-is-its.html

    http://www.businessforhome.org/2012/02/swiss-newspaper-crushes-lyoness/

    http://www.mlm-thewholetruth.com/mlm-legal-issues/coupons-vouchers-gift-certificates-and-down-payments-in-mlm/

    Lou Abbott
    Founding Editor
    http://www.MLM-theWholeTruth.com
    804-501-2840

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for dropping by, Mr. Abbott. Been to your website many times.

      Lyoness is an odd business... It has a fine cashback scheme (primarily funded by the merchants), even a bit of multi-level (if you sign up someone, you share a bit of the cash reward), but it has this weird structure where you can BUY shopping units (i.e. earn rewards WITHOUT shopping), which essentially makes it a Ponzi scheme. Lyoness defenders can only point to the legitimate portion, and when we point out the suspicious portion, they basically all got "selective blindness" (much like Horatio Nelson "turned a blind eye" to the signal to retreat... apocryphal of course).

      I, personally though. would treat Mr. David Brear's blog with few grains of salt. He believes ALL MLMs to be COMPLETELY ILLEGAL. He raises good points, but usually AFTER other people have already hammered the point to death. :)

      Delete
  3. Can someone please show me a legitimate news article on this topic, an article written and published by a real news company? The only articles discussed in threads like this are ones written by blog writers who primarily want to attract readers for their own gain (i.e. advertising and affiliate revenue). There is no proof of what you've written, just anecdotal heresay. Substantiate your claims and I'm sure the traffic to your website, and subsequent revenue, will go through the roof! Then you'll be providing a real service to the world, and not just spreading lies and rumors so you can make a profit.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. You just didn't bother to click through, do you?

      http://wirtschaftsblatt.at/home/nachrichten/oesterreich/1382434/LyonessKonsumenten-feuern-aus-allen-Rohren

      Delete
    2. Try and get your money back from this up front company

      Delete
  4. Can someone give me a link to0 some sort of Austrian equivalent of the US' Better Business Bureau? All I see are bloggers quoting some news reports with some fairly spotty reporting that include little if any factual material. It's a lot of assumption and speculation.

    It all seems to center around the purchasing of units for a member's back office, which is completely voluntary. So someone please show me some contacts that I can make myself.

    Please send them to timothycallen@gmail.com

    Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The agency name was in the article. Why don't you read it instead of dismissing it as "spotty reporting"?

      Delete
  5. You want to check the german wikipedia Page about Lyoness:
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoness

    There you will find a lot of trusted news sources. (Section "Kritik" - Critisim)

    Then checkout :
    http://mediacenter.dw.de/english/audio/item/250317/Lyoness_Shopping_community_or_pyramid_scheme

    Then checkout these 3 shows that have aired in Austrian Television

    http://vimeo.com/56040743
    http://vimeo.com/54486900
    http://vimeo.com/66379500





    ReplyDelete
  6. I have always found all these forum about and aganist Lyoness very interesting.

    As a well educated person here is my version:

    Lyoness is a shopping community. In fact it is the largest shopping community. Fact. 2.8 million members worldwide.
    There is no registration fee to join lyoness and all services are free. Fact.
    The person recommending you is paying a one-off admin fee of £0.90.Fact
    All the units that the people above are referring to; can be obtained through shopping organically.
    What's the catch?

    The problem people have is that they think they understand the model and are now authorities in a subject. I can say that I am an authority on Lyoness because I know the system inside out.

    The choice of down-paying for units, is an is an individual choice. No one forces anyone to do so. They clearly tell you that if you wish to work with Lyoness , that it may be an option to consider.

    I have been seeing forums like this for some years now.

    Wake up and smell the coffee.

    It's 2013 - the headquarters haven't moved, Hubert Friedl hasn't emigrated to US, who has won a court case worth mentioning.

    All this is cheap talk. I don't even know why I bother with you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Perhaps the fact that Lyoness may be a shopping community that is also ENCOURAGING a Ponzi scheme within its own system is what's bothering you?

      Nobody disputed that Lyoness has a shopping loyalty system, yet NONE of the defenders can explain WHY you can BUY the units (which bypasses ALL of the shopping!) other than "but you don't have to..."

      WHAT IS ITS PURPOSE if it's NOT ABOUT SHOPPING?

      Perhaps you can't be bothered as you can't think of a reason yourself. It's called denial.

      Delete
  7. Kasey and et all;

    All the countries in which Lyoness is present (all 44 currently), Ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes are illegal. Lyoness did not just start yesterday. If it is a Ponzi scheme , let the relevant authorities deal with it. Why are you trying to give your 5 pence worth.

    Regarding the down payment for units - you are simply down paying for your future purchases like down paying a deposit for a sofa etc. What is the problem? If you see this as a problem that all the businesses which accept a deposit are a problem in your eyes.

    I guess this forum is a bit like trip advisor - where a 100 people say a particular hotel is fantastic but 1 individual says 'don't bother going there' because the pasta wasn't cooked properly. I take it that you are getting my drift...

    On a more positive note... you know that Lyoness now has 3,000,000 members and is growing.

    Also, I believe you haven't understood the compensation plan fully. Please take time to read and understand it, before you comment. I can tell you that thousands of people in Lyoness are laughing at your comments and know that you are not quite aware of all the benefits and all.

    While you are going to take all your months frustation out at my comments, I wish you well.

    Regards,
    A truly satisfied, down to ground, happy Lyoness member with a downteam of thousand members who are all happy and enjoying the benefits from shopping with Lyoness.

    I also have another suggestion:

    Please get the person running the site to print the full version of all the comments, as it represents the individual. Chopping, cutting out and displaying abstracts shows someone who is trying to hide something....

    ReplyDelete
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    1. In case you can't read, the news coverage says Austria, where Lyoness originated, is investigating Lyoness as a Ponzi scheme. So the authorities *are* dealing "with it".

      Why am I giving it my 5 *whatever* worth? I'm citing news interesting to me. Just as you are commenting on it.

      The problem with this purchasing of units is it enables you to gain a LOT MORE than you put in. Perhaps you don't see how that works? Perhaps it is you who don't understand the Lyoness comp plan?

      Having 3 million members can't be wrong? I think DPRE pyramid in Colombia had 4 million members before it collapsed. And that's in Colombia alone. It's bandwagon fallacy if you think it's sign of legitimacy.

      You keep saying I don't understand, yet you can't point out where I was mistaken. Perhaps you're the one with the dirty mouth.

      And I am publishing your comments as is. So I don't know what the **** you're talking about "full version of all the comments".

      Delete
  8. Hey Mr Chang.

    I think the idea of expressing your views on a forum is to educate people. By swearing, using foul language - you are only showing a weak foundation, upbringing or etiquette or a combination. Lets speak on a level where one is seen to be communicating rather than arguing with a fool.

    Anyway.

    1. According to you, Lyoness is being investigated by some Authority in Austria. Do you think this is the first time that this may have happened? So what has happened in the past investigations. Lyoness still has the same compensation plan as before. If you took some time to look up, you will find the companies like microsoft, google etc are being sued on a day to day basis.

    2. Mr Chang, the basic principle of business is to make money. That is the general idea. When you downpay for units in Lyoness, you are paying a deposit for your future purchases. When your downline shops, the units accumulate under you. Eventually sooner or later you units will mature and pay out. Is there any member in the whole world who claims Lyoness has not paid out when a unit matures?

    3. When I refer to 3,000,000 members , i am in no way trying to tell you that they are all right and that we should make a judgement based on that. You have simply assumed that. I am simply showing you that Lyoness is growing with you or without you.


    4.Personally, i know the compensation plan very well. I have looked at all the small print, terms and conditions and shopped with lyoness to see how the system works. I know how the units work, are booked and paid out. As before, i suggest you go to a lyoness presentation and familiarize yourself with the compensation plan. For those who understand lyoness and the compensation plan, you will be a laughing stork, as they can clearly see that you have no idea.


    5.In the meanwhile, while you take your daily frustrations out on this blog, let me get back to work and help build my residual income because when i am 60 yrs old , i dont fancy stacking shelves in a supermarket like you will be.


    I await a well thought out response, with no swear words and written well.


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1) Using polite language doesn't disguise your lack of valid information. I can be as polite (and as sarcastic) as I wish, or I can swear like an old sailor. Doesn't really change the point other than you trying to derail the conversation onto my word choices instead of Lyoness.

      2) Then why have the downpayment of units AT ALL? If it's a shopping loyalty program, it should ALL be about the shopping.

      3) Why did you mention the 3 million members then? Stop backpedaling and moving the goalpost. Just because you didn't SAY it doesn't mean you didn't MEAN it.

      4) Again, you have not explained what was "wrong" with the "other" way of interpreting the comp plan. All you said so far is "they don't get it". This is what? FOURTH time you said it? Again, what's wrong?

      5) I don't have daily frustrations, other than people who prefer to play word games

      Delete
  9. Lyoness also is present on WikiPedia.

    A lot of useful information can be found there:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoness

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hey Casey.

    Great to see that you have finally replied.

    Your language is getting better. Thanks.

    I think the problem you have is understanding the downpayments;

    Let me have a go at trying to explain this:

    1. When you shop, through Lyoness you get upto 2% cashback which will builds upto £9.00 in your cash account and finally be transferred into your private bank account on a Tuesday, on hitting a sum of £9 or more.

    2. A the same time, you are accumulating your loyalty cash sum into a Loyalty account. Basically when that sum hits £45 you will create a unit in the first accounting category (AC1) in the Lyoness accounting programme. How did you accumulate a unit - through shopping. You are buying what you want, you would have done that with or without lyoness. The difference is with lyoness you have got cashback on your purchase and at the same time built up some funds in your loyalty account which will eventually yield £405.00 when it matures, i.e. when you have 35 units of £45 above and 35 units of £45 below in the binary accounting system. Please note that the units can be yours, your downlines units or a mixture of both. It is impirtant to note that your units are sitting behind your downlines units, thus you are also helping your downlines units mature.

    3. When you are downpaying, you are paying a fraction of what you intend to spend in the future. You are paying a deposit in effect. The rest of the balance can be paid by yourself, or units created from your downline or a mixture. You are effectively using the leverage of your downlines shopping. It's about shopping. For example you pay £1800 as a premium member downpayment. This would equate to a deposit of 10% say if you intended to shop for £18,000. The units are yours.

    Hopefully you are starting to understand Lyoness a bit better.

    Bye the way, I don't play with my words. I talk sense. I am very clear with my thought, understanding and explanation. I suggest you look at doing something more constructive yourself otherwise you might be stacking shelves in a supermarket at the age of 65.

    Everyone needs at Plan B. Everyone should have a residual income.

    Good luck in your future project.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You're missing the "point". The facts are: you can create a "unit" two ways... through shopping, and through direct purchase.

      One is obviously part of shopping loyalty network, the other is not. And thus far, you have FAILED to explain why you can be allowed to purchase units directly, as it bypasses all the shopping, as it merely qualifies you on units created by all the OTHER members (funded by merchants through other member's shopping... or member's own wallet if they also purchased units).

      Which part didn't I get?

      "Residual income" is a part of business or investment. Lyoness is a shopping loyalty program for the participants. It is NEITHER a business (for the participants) nor an investment.

      Perhaps it is YOU who don't get the contradictions within your own descriptions?

      Delete
  11. lyoness is clearly a rip off, I tried many mlm , as every pyramid only the peak has chance to get a lot of money, the system works and never is satured because there is a huge number of people come in and come out from the system in the lower level, the principle is all the same make many people work in order to get richer few sorry for my english...

    ReplyDelete
  12. Critics, please advise your thoughts on Herbal Life and Amway... are these pyramids as well in your opinion? My opinion based on my experience and understanding thus far is the following: Lyoness operates within the different Legal Framework of 44 different countries. I know that they have spend quite a lot of time to study our unique laws in South Africa ie. Consumer Protection Act, Collective Investment Schemes Act, Banks Act etc. They are certainly not in contravention thus far in my opinion of any of these laws and have so far fulfilled on their business model promises. The systems can sometimes be a bit frustrating to get use to but in the bigger picture it is not that bad.

    Units, well you have the option (as I understand it) to buy discount in advance by means of a downpayment. This is not an investment with promised returns, this is a downpayment against future purchases and the only way that it will mature is if you shop to create more units, or refer people in your downline and they shop, or by making downpayments against future purchases, you also have the option to make a top up payment for the outstanding balance if you wish. In my opinion this concept is brilliant and very well thought out. I have registered 2 of my businesses as Loyalty Merchants in the last 2 months with Lyoness and are happy up to date.

    Again from a pyramid scheme point of view. - if I create an unit in the accounting program and someone else in my downline does the same tomorrow, and I create another unit the next day, then Im not on top and I have actually helped someone in my downline which illustrates to me that Lyoness is not a pyramid scheme. Also shouldnt there have been at least a couple of court orders / judgements to declare that Lyoness is an illegal pyramid scheme up to date if it really was? Hubert Friedl have all these events in Austria, another massive one coming up in February 2014. Surely if he was running from authorities there like some are suggesting he would host events there for thousands and thousands of people... anyway, I am not saying the company has never done anything wrong... I dont know that, and even if they did, how many massive corporates have absolutely clean track records in business? just watch "Inside Job" and think to yourself how many people have actually stopped doing business with the corporates mentioned in that movie out of a matter of principle? banks gearing 33/1 etc... and that is not a pyramid scheme and is sound business principles?

    anyway I'm looking forward to the results of all the alleged investigations. but I can guarantee you that even if the results good for Lyoness, some people will just not accept it and will continue with their splurges on the internet...

    Regards,
    Someone with an open head.

    ReplyDelete
  13. lyoness in my opinion it is great opportunity start your own bussines withhout any investment or risk which is uniqe in 2013. i went to SNS in london 2weeks ago and they clearly explain everything about it. you should use lyoness not as company you gona work for but as a tool that you using for building your own bussines.:)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Then you should join as a vendor/merchant, which is completely irrelevant. I was talking about joining as a shopper/unit buyer.

      Delete
  14. Hi all from Greece,
    I started Lyoness as a business merchant to bring more customers to my door and all I know is that is worked. I paid 2,000 euros and I was a premium member and became a loyalty merchant. I have revenue from new customers I wouldn't have normally had. I sold my business 3 months later and am moving back to New York to focus on Lyoness there as in IBR. I made an extra 1,800 euros in less than three months from new dedicated customers. I loved it! I really do believe that if you really read into the all the negative blogs out there it's mostly smoke. They underline and highlight negative words and use a lot of opinion and vague language to sounds like facts. I found one "fact" and double checked it on the Lyoness website and found that blog was wrong.
    http://cc-lyoness.blogspot.gr/2013/07/lyoness-unlimited-growth-potential.html
    This blog states that in Zurich there are only 40 Lyoness merchants... Here is what I found... Zurich is 92sq. kilometers and I did a search on Lyoness for Loyalty merchants and found, in a 92 kilometer radius of Zurich there are 802 Loyalty merchants, and these 802 are only the ones that accept the Lyoness Card. If you refine the search and add stores that accept gift cards and the mobile voucher the number rises to 1094. If you refine the search to only a 16 mile radius than you get 150 Loyalty merchants.
    Long story short it seems that some people out there are out to get Lyoness no matter what...just like they do to Freemasons...lol...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did you cut and paste that from somewhere? I never stated there are only 40 merchants in Zurich.

      There are a lot more people out to promote Lyoness no matter what they see or say.

      Fact is, Lyoness is under investigation for possible Ponzi scheme. No ifs, ands, or buts. Whether you believe it is or isn't, is, well, your own business, but whether you are dealing with all the facts... well, that's what we're debating. :)

      Delete
    2. Funny bumping into you here Mr Papadakis, especially since you claim that our Blog is 'wrong', based on one minor inaccuracy you think you may have found (which you did not, more on that later), which was by the way not the result of any of our investigations, but of that of our source, to which we had clearly attributed this claim.

      As we pointed out on our Blog today, your math skills may be a little rusty:

      http://cc-lyoness.blogspot.com/2013/08/lyoness-finest-or-why-we-moderate.html

      "We assume your comment concerns our following phrase (which, for the record, was clearly attributed to our listed source):

      "In Zurich, Switzerland's largest city with 400,000 inhabitants and 38,000 registered companies, 40 merchants are part of the Lyoness network (roughly 0.1%)."

      We have had a look, and indeed, Zurich has a total land area of about 92 square kilometers. We also agree on Zurich having about 400,000 inhabitants.

      However, Zurich having a total land area of about 92 square kilometers, has of course nothing to do with using a 'search radius of 92 kilometers' on the Lyoness website. Perhaps you have picked this up in math class at some point - and if not, this may be a nice refresher - but the area of a circle is determined by squaring the radius (i.e. radius*radius), and multiplying the result by Pi (approximately 3.14).

      In other words, the area you have examined covers in fact 92*92*Pi= 26,590.44 square kilometers (or: 289 times the total land area of the city of Zurich, or: 26,590.44/41,285= 64.4% of the total land area of Switzerland). Some of the many cities within a radius of 92 kilometers from Zurich are: Basel, Bern, Freiburg, Friedrichshafen, Memmingen, Konstanz, St. Gallen, Luzern and Mullhouse. And 802/289= 2.77 businesses, so that should even out quite nicely.

      If you have used similar calculations to determine whether Lyoness provides a solid business opportunity, we understand why you joined."

      http://cc-lyoness.blogspot.com/2013/08/lyoness-finest-or-why-we-moderate.html

      The Lyoness Complaint Centre

      Delete
    3. Mr Papadakis, you probably did not accept blackmail by authorized members ordered the administration never officially responds on serious questions. I did received blackmail from one of your Lyoness big guys in order to retract a question about unfair/unjust behavior from Lyoness to a member merchant. Beware they will do it to you ...

      Delete
    4. Mr Papadakis, can you explain why in February 2013 the Greek Lyoness merchants group consisted of 2050 merchants and now end of September 2014 they are 2080? what kind of growth is this?

      Delete
  15. The biggest problem with Lyoness is not the company itself, but the lack of understanding among Lyoness members… It is not possible to invest in Lyoness as Lyoness does not represent a Financial institution. The “AC investment scheme” is nothing else than a partial payment on future shopping. Therefore it is possible to get the value of your units back in monetary value, as long as you make the top-up payment.
    To do independent research, google the Lyoness scamreview-document and refer to the bottom section – the $3000 downpayment.
    You can never loose your money in Lyoness, as long as you commit to future shopping. Why are no one mentioning the ISO-9001 Quality management standard certification on this blog?? We should really investigate in detail before expressing opinions out there…
    There are numerous T+C’s that any member has to agree to online, before making these partial payments, also not mentioned here. Once again, I invite everyone to read the lyonessscamreview document and not to believe every critic or opinion.
    Be blessed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The biggest problem, IMHO, is people not realizing what they're describing.

      A shopping loyalty program is paid by the merchants. Why would Lyoness need YOUR money? You're BUYING a higher rank (accounting units). That's a PAY-TO-PLAY pyramid scheme.

      You will lose your money if Lyoness was declared illegal and assets frozen or closed. You are assuming it will stay open FOREVER.

      And what about ISO9001? That's just proving that it has a proven PROCEDURE. That's like saying "he graduated from Harvard, he can't be a crook".

      I'm not talking about the members, I'm talking about Lyoness itself.

      Once again, I invite people to look past the PR spin put out by Lyoness spin doctors and look at the truth. If it's too good to be true, it probably is. Don't believe any PR spin you come across, but to read up on all the material available, and make up your own mind, instead of listening to one side telling you not to believe the other side.

      Delete
  16. Lyoness is just perfect, to realise where your money goes u should participate some events and not just look at the posts, many i read it seems to me, people boutght positions, and those who refered to them those positions wasnt quite clear about them. Why Lyoness needs your money positioning? Offcourse its your choice, but imagine that all development costs, they have to make million friendship flyers, 10.000 computers with lectors capable to scan your casback card and transfer the money automatically, al this material must be prepared, ... and imagine when Lyoness opens up in selected country, there are law issues to be discussed, who pays those procedures? ... well in the end every country likes to have Lyoness developed, because there is less black marcet ... well depends where do we live after all ;)

    MLM is just a method of expansion, in 2020 all will be done, and you`ll get your cashback card from biggest chain organisations, or you can registrate on your own, i dont need sceptics in my lifeline so you can do whatever you wish, im searching for business partners! ;)

    Have a nice time all of you and greetings from Italy.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Do you really evaluate an income opportunity based on what it will be 6 YEARS from now, rather than what it is now and what it has been?

      Also, they charge merchants for the signup and the flyers. So are you saying they are double-charging? Or are you just making **** up as you go along? Did you bother reading the merchant application?

      You Italians need to deal with FACTS, not wishful thinking.

      Delete
  17. wow investigations ... now its 2014, and Hubert was in Wienna for sensation ... so i quess Lyoness is not a Ponzi scheme and the procedure was disbanded ;)

    MLM is reality, and it works for more than 100 years, and let me be critical about normal things in our life; at the bar you go everything is fine ... you get your cup of coffe as usual, but the waitress doesnt make the bill, and puts that dollar in her task, robbing the owner like this, and you sit there quietly ... well thats more of a problem to me, and in some zones its accepted normaly ... yeah, completely legal thing but the person who got confidence breaks the rules and does some black ... the same can happen with Lyoness, you may find a person pursuing you doing premium, and has no idea even where your money goes ;)

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. MLM did not exist until FTC formalized Amway in 1979. Please get your timeline straight.

      And investigation often takes YEARS. People have been warning the public about Bernie Madoff for over a decade, and in the end he confessed when he ran out of money, not because any one caught him.

      So right now, the official position is "we don't know", it had not been resolved. Please don't pat yourself on the back just yet.

      Delete
  18. You guys are hilarious. IT COST NOTHING TO JOIN.....SHOP JUST SHOP AND YOU EARN MONEY..THAT IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS......so stop making negative comments about this. Whoever started this thread its totally ignorant clearly. I am darn sure that MICROSOFT , HOME DEPOT , SUBWAY WOULD BE INVOLVED WITH A COMPANY LIKE THIS IF IT WAS A SCAM SO ENOUGH SAID ON THE SUBJECT.GEEZE

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    1. You are hilarious. Nobody is talking about joining as a mere shopper. We're talking about "buying account units", i.e. "down payment on gift cards"... yeah right. There's bazillion credit cards that'll give you 1.5% back on all sorts of purchases.

      So stop making POSITIVE comments about things you don't know much about. I reported a news item, and so far all I am getting is rah-rah "you are so wrong" comments.

      As for who signed up with Lyoness... Did any one figure out Madoff was a crook? or Enron? How about Houston Astros who let Enron buy the naming rights to Astro Field? And had to PAY ENRON TO BUY THE NAME BACK?

      You don't know enough to argue properly, sheesh. All you got is a lot of suppositions. Find some FACTS to argue with instead.

      Delete
  19. It's end of June, 2014. Lyoness still operates in the USA and in many other countries. There are mlm news stating there is an ongoing investigation against Lyoness in the US dated 2012, 2013 and Lyoness still operates just fine. So, they are legal after all?

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    1. All that proves is they have not yet been declared illegal or accused of any wrongdoing.

      Delete
  20. how does making an upfront payment for future purchases benefit you today? I mean is you pay $1800 for future discounts, they are not really discounts are they... as you have simply paid upfront for the supposed discount. You are not really getting a discount..you are juts down paying for future purchases... and that to me is stupid, as the price in two years time will have gone up by more than 10%, yet the 'discount' you get only comes out of that which you paid already..there is no 'interest' on your down payments as an investment? the only people making money to me is lyoness themselves. They may get discounts form big retailers for referring shoppers to them, but the individual shopper is not getting the discount, as the voucher he 'redeems' is from what he already paid for. This to me is a nasty scheme that has hoodwinked many into funding e few to get rich off of the masses. Think about this... in SA there is at least 3000 premier members who have paid R 20,000.00 and that equates to R 60,000,000.00 !!! Who is getting the R 60 million. Now I bet that they certainly have negotiated deals with reatailers to give a discount, so all they do is facilitate a voucher system making you think that you are getting the discount, but you paid for it already, but the retailer gives lyoness the discount... this is a huge ponzi scheme of epic proportions

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    1. The most non-sensical part about buying a unit as down payment is it bypasses all the shopping.

      To generate equivalent of 1 $500 unit, you need to have shopped about 5000-10000 dollars based on the rate the bonuses add up. Or you pay pay $500 directly to Lyoness and do NO shopping. How does this benefit the merchants? It doesn't.

      Delete
  21. Hell, all you have to do is read Darrell Huff's HOW TO LIE WITH STATISTICS (a short, easy to read, funny, and wonderfully illustrative book in print continuously since 1954) and the Lyoness Income Disclosure Statement (http://cdnlarge.lyoness.net/downloads/pdf/us/info/lyo-ids-us.pdf) to see how much they're bamboozling people. According to their own disclosure statement, in black and white for anyone who can read and understand what they're reading:

    "Beginning January 1, 2013 and ending December 31, 2013, approximately twenty four percent (24%) of all US IBRs received no income at all. During this period, the average income of all Members was $112.69 and of all IBRs was $1,088.62. The median income of all Members was $0.04 and of all IBRs was $28.00. " Do any of those numbers look that great to you? One-fourth of IBRs make no money at all for their efforts? They'd be better off working those hours, however many, greeting people at Wal-Mart.

    Level 1 IBRs work an average of 13.12 hours a week, or about 655 hours a year, to make an average of $1,759 a year, or average about $2.80 an hour for their efforts. Sign me up! And Level 1 IBRs, by the way, are more than 90% of all the IBRs. All the IBRs are fewer than 3% of all Lyoness members.

    Note the switching between weekly, monthly, and annual figures to mix things up; it's a lot harder to know exactly how things equate out. Also notice they switch between "average" and "median"... a dead giveaway of trying to pull wool over people's eyes. A median is indeed an average, but it can mean a very different thing than the mean, which is what people usually think of when they hear "average".

    Even a Level 3 works basically a full time job, 38 hours a week on average, to make an average of $20,694. That's almost 2,000 hours a year, to make $10-11 an hour. It's better than greeting people at Wal-Mart, but not by much. And notice they stop showing exact percentages of IBRs who are level 3 and up, most likely because it's such a laughably tiny percentage they don't really want you to know; they just say <1%. Most likely it's more like .1% (1 in a thousand) or .01% (1 in ten thousand).

    And on and on. Read that income disclosure form closely. Oh yeah, those are GROSS estimated incomes, not NET - you haven't factored in your expenses yet, have you?

    Seriously: who falls for this stuff? Do their moms still tie their shoelaces for them?

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    1. Lots of people never bother looking at the income disclosure. They were bamboozled by the presenters / recruiters who use foot-in-door technique: just sign up for free shopping! then once they got some cashback, the recruiter reel them in with "hey, but you can MAKE money if you advance up the AC's!"

      (BTW, most of the companies that have to issue income disclosure statements look very much like it. I have articles on Vemma and Herbalife that explains how the numbers don't look good once you look closer)

      Delete
    2. Kasey Chang, do you honestly believe that the MLM community does not police its own?
      All you are doing is perpetuating your own misunderstanding of how this business is run.

      I am a Lyoness Marketer. I have made this a business for myself. If I see that someone else is interested in becoming a marketer, I explain to them that yes, they can make money by first building a network of customers who want to shop, and finding small businesses who want to be part of the community, all of which generates sales. Their marketing generates sales. Only by generating sales can the marketer advance in the compensation plan. Only by generating constant sales can the marketer make money for themselves.

      The key word here is "constant." I do not tell any prospective marketer to "dump" money into Lyoness, so they can level up fast on one shot, based on a one-time sale to themselves, and can sit on their butt and expect income to float through the door. Why? Because if they don't already have a system for generating constant sales, they will not get money after they advance. All they would be doing is hurting themselves.

      Your writing makes it sound as if those of us involved in network marketing don't care and are dishonest. This is the myth/rumor/ complete ridiculousness you are perpetuating.

      Delete
    3. >>Only by generating sales can the marketer advance in the compensation plan.

      Or they can just BUY the account units, dude.

      >>Your writing makes it sound as if those of us involved in network marketing don't care

      There's no doubt that SOME people in network marketing are douchebags. it's just too bad you see attack on them as attack on yourself by associating yourself with them.

      Delete
  22. So anyone know's the way how to refund the down payment ?

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