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For timeline, TelexFree Brazil was shut down in June 2013 by court injunction, and has been in a limbo since. Its lawyers launched appeal after appeal to no avail, while telling affiliates that they should register with TelexFree US and get paid by TelexFree US.
It is also interesting to note the timeframe... late July is when Gerald "I see no Ponzi" Nehra said TelexFree is legal in the US, at a TelexFree event in Newport Beach, California. Presumably, that's when they started applying for the FCC license, not that there's any proof that TelexFree actually OWNS any "telecom facilities", as specified in the FCC license it had obtained. They went through "streamlined" FCC approval process where the public was given a few weeks to comment, and voila: "authority granted".
Can you BUY any TelexFree service and use it? Good question. I haven't found ANYONE that claimed to done so that is believable.
What's surprising the the other name that appeared on TelexFree's FCC license... Joe "I love then hate FHTM" Isaacs.
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| English: Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing, Inc. (FHTM) Logo (Photo credit: Wikipedia) |
What's interesting is Joe Isaacs apparently opened a consulting business called ISG Telecom Consultants in Florida, the same address he had previously used by Fortune Social and such, where he helps anybody with enough money to become a telecom company. You just need to know what papers to file with whom, basically, which is what a consultant does. And he has helped several telecom companies get off the ground...
And one of them is TelexFree... the suspect scam in Brazil, that doesn't really exist in the US (or UK), as proven before when their offices are... well, virtual.
Is this irony? Fate? Or God playing a cruel joke on everybody?
este blog es una perdedera de tiempo, empece a leerlo para ver si me servia para abrir los ojos ante algun fraude, pero no es asi solo hablan especulaciones en todo , es una tonteria.
ReplyDeleteCuantas paginas leeste?
DeleteEste pagina es la verdad. No no sabes la historia de senor Joe Isaacs. Es possible que eso es nada ilegal, pero es interesante coincidencia, no?
TelexFree ya es un fraude y un Ponzi. No necesito que lo demuestran. Se ha demostrado en los tribunales en Brazil.
Nao se ha demonstrado em tribunais do Brazil e sim, o que sabemos e que e um jogo politico da promotora, esposa do vice-governador do estado do Acre, que tem interesses da operadora OI para nao desbloquear a empresa
ReplyDeleteEles perderam cada vez no tribunal, e você ainda acha que não está provado? Eu acho que é mais fácil acreditar que há uma conspiração em vez da verdade.
DeleteThis looks like the typical scam MLM, little to no retail and a tool scam. Here's the largest, longest lasting MLM scam, read about it and compare your MLM to it: www.stoptheamwaytoolscam.wordpress.com
ReplyDeleteTo the writer of this article who has no real inside information on this company as to it's products should find out more first instead calling (us), " fanatics" and boasting of no legitimacy of the company itself. The product is VOIP service, the same VOIP SERVICE Skype,Magic Jack, Vonage and many many others use and make many millions of dollars monthly and yearly. You do not have to "sign" others under you to get paid from the company. If you advertise for them and do not sell any phone service,(voip service) you still get paid from the company.
ReplyDeleteIf you would like to know more about this company please don't hesitate to email me using this link and thank you for your time. www.johnhg24@gmail.com Thanks again for reading.
Why, has Brazil declare you gents innocent? You're STILL a suspect Ponzi scheme, having lost at LEAST 16 different appeals in Brazilian courts. Your offices in the US are virtual offices (one's a mailbox in a convenience store, the other is a Regus virtual office). How many VOIP service package have you sold?
DeleteFrankly, if you have to resort to "email me for 'real information'" that you can't share with the public... well, one wonders what you have to say that you can't post here.
hello all I have been in contact with some members that they work with telexfree, I live 10miles from Marlborough and checked if there is an office there they all told me there is but it is a small office and no one there. it made me think twice about getting this company
Deletewell i live in Connecticut , but i have friends that works in directly for telex free and they do have a office and i've been there personally so before you take ones word for it check it yourself. despite of what anyone say telex free is still in business and making ALL of its promoters very happy. everyday that you let go by with out make the decision of joint us you are letting a lot of money pass by you.......
DeleteSo you have a virtual office and a rent-by-the-hour office. So what?
DeleteScams often takes YEARS to shut down. You're just hoping for the best when all the evidence points to "expect the worst". That's faith, not business. If you want to throw your money to a money cult, that's indeed your choice. But misleading other people to throw in more money... well, that's called FRAUD.
I would say to this, if your site has enough followers then my case is brought to the public. As far as the Brasilian government is concerned they have NO MLM laws to judge this or any other company. For instance they , from what I understand are investigating HerbalLife because they consider this a "suspect co.".Everyone knows the products HerbalLife carries,(of which I am not involved with this perticular company) yet they are still checking on it. I have sold numerious voip phones.As far as the office locations, while it's true they don't have many locations such as Verizon and many other phone companies, they don't need them but they do have a main office in Marlborough Mass which you may call and make an appointment to visit. Just as an FYI, South African government has accepted Telexfree in their country. Listen, this is still a very new technolagy of which major phone service carriers don't like very much and never will untill they learn how to profit from it so it's no wander their is a lot of resistance to it.I have been an affiliate for over a year now and have had no problems. I put my email here as a matter of curtisey if someone had a real question.I am only one person like you, I don't work directly for the company so i can only defend my small part in all of this. I would say this has been a very good buisness to me and my family. Thank you again for reading this but please remember this is my view only.
ReplyDeleteJohn
If I have to make an appointment to visit, it's a virtual office with a rent-by-the-hour meeting room.
Deletehttp://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2013/07/telexfree-location-lie-its-tvi-express.html
Same with their UK office.
http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2013/09/telexfree-uk-office-is-lie-and-heres.html
And TelexFree was outlawed in while there's no proof they were "accepted" in South Africa. Where's their business license to operate telecom?
I have no problem with it being good for you. I have a problem with it being a giant fraudulent Ponzi scheme that had been deceiving thousands of people for years.
Oops, should have wrote "outlawed in Peru"
DeleteThere is no specific "MLM law" in the US either. So what does that have to do with Brazil's lack of such?
DeletePyramid schemes and Ponzi schemes are prosecuted under fraud all over the world. You don't need "MLM law" to do that.
(15 Bromet Close, Watford, Hertfordshire, WD17 4LP UK),
ReplyDeleteHi it's me again. The above referenced office,(which you claim either doesn't exist or is not read is in an office building. Many companies share office space with other companies so I'm not sure your opinion is so valid. Just an FYI., Thanks, John
"Many companies share office space with other companies"?
DeleteThat's not sharing office space. That's sharing a mailbox, as they didn't even bother renting a separate room (thus having a suite number).
Besides, you do realize that's merely the first address, and they've changed their address TWICE since then?
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI'm not convinced a company setteling down to 1 address for a period of time than changing to a new address is a sign of instability or non-existence, it could be one of economics.
Established company changing offices may be matter of economics.
DeleteBrand new company establishing presence in foreign country it had never been before, and change 3 times in one month, is a sign of avoiding whack-a-mole.
While I do like a good "snowball" fight from time to time, I look at this this way, I'll play the game until the game ends.As far as the last person to the party, each person knows it's a risk before they join. For example who does one blame for investing in a stock which goes belly up just as they got comfortable with it and made a huge investment? Do they yell at their broker, the friend who said"you have to buy this one", or yourself thinking this can not go down?
ReplyDeleteJust a look at the other side of the coin.
Thanks, John
While I can see "other side" of the coin, unfortunately it's still bogus logic... Claim that "victims should have known better". Zeek's "Paul Burks" was quoted by newspaper to have said "I never told them to invest more than they can afford. Don't blame me."
Deletehttp://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2013/05/bad-argument-dont-blame-me-even-though.html
If they went in knowing how risky it is then sure. It's their risk.
But if they were deceived about level of risk (such as the government will shut them down a as a scam)... then it's still fraud.
Seems like *you* are fully aware of the risk, but have you considered that money you may be getting is coming from other people who may NOT be aware of the risks?
Or is that "none of my business", i.e. willful blindness?
At what point do "they" become victems, when things are going good and their making money or when things become shaky and they loose their money.They must know their is risk.If I lost money in something I knew or even thought was shaky but I did it anyway who am I going to blame, or do I (at that point) consider myself a victem,.It's not right to consider yourself a victem If you made a wrong choice.
ReplyDeleteThey were victimized from the very start, actually... when they were deceived into joining.
DeleteYou, however, seem to know your risks. So you're not among the sheeple. Don't assume other people are as smart as you are. You're smarter than that.
Thank you for the comment. I just can't put my head around the idea that her is a guy with $1000.00 and he's going to walk up to a, (for the sake of argument), stranger and hand him/her that money without asking some questions. I would venture to say 98 or even 99% of the people who join these types of programs know the person they are signing up with, weather it's a friend or a family member,etc. I would admit to you that yes there are those people out their that would intentionally try to screw anyone anytime for anything, but take a look at this company.They could have washed their hands when this judgement hit Brasil, closed up shop and said, "the party's been great but now I have to go,bye.), but they did not.They are still trying to get the judge to pay all the people in Brasil who were affected by this but the judge is saying no. Again does the company give up . no they sign a contract with one of the biggest soccer teams in Brasil right here in Miami. Does this sound to you like a company who is decieving someone? I think you should take a closer look at this company and if you would like to join I will help you
ReplyDeleteI cannot speak for the mind of Costas. He may sincerely believe he will pervail, but he may also be insane. Or he may sincerely believe he can get away with it.
DeleteThere is one type of scammers who believe they are untouchable, the narcissistic personality. I encourage you to study the biography of Kevin Trudeau. Spending time in jail for credit card fraud and check fraud only made him more careful with his frauds, and even more deliberate. Then consider if any of those traits are present in Mr. Costas.
I suppose only time will tell if either of us are right. While I understand the name of your blog, their must be a time even you would start believing something good about this company.This type of company is springing up every half hour it seems and while I would be foolish to think they are all being created with the "best intentions", I know they are not. The main problem with this by the time the feds or other government types find out about them many thousands of people and their families will be affected. The internet is becoming less invisible as the years go by but people have great imaginations so these people will always seem to be several steps ahead not to mention the resorces it takes to track down or even keep up with this problem, and yes I do think it's a problem.
ReplyDeleteBut even as these problems are inherent some great ideas have and will continue to spring up as a result of these "growing pains".
Thanks,John
"there must be a time even you would start believe in something good about this company"?
DeleteThat's faith, not reality. Deal with facts, not what you *want* to believe in. That's called "wishful thinking".
I have no problem with "new ideas", but there are plenty of VOIP services out there that are free or low cost and does not rely on Ponzi or pyramid selling to survive. TelexFree is a scam, and it needs to die so the *real* companies can go on.
What do you consider "real" companies? For example, Vontage, Magick Jack, are these real companies which in turn use the voip technology but have wrapped a company name around that technology and gave it a price. Skype did the same thing and was sold to Microsoft for approximatly 1.8 Billion with the difference being they added video. What makes your hatred so strong with this company when others are doing the same thing or do you not remember the beginning arguments of the subject?
ReplyDeleteJust for curiosity what other companies in this industry do you oppose?
This is a different age we live in where a company does not have to own 500 buildings in every country of the world to reconised as a company.Sorry for the spelling.
Thanks
John
Are you sure you actually *read* my response last time? I already told you "there are plenty of VOIP services out there that are free or low cost and does nto rely on Ponzi or pyramid selling".
DeleteMy problem with TelexFree is its Ponzi scheme. It has nothing to do with that industry it allegedly is in. After all, it didn't even bother to apply for a telecom license in Brazil, and only recently applied for one in the US.
Is that what a *real* telecom company would do?
It is a true scam. People sometimes are in desperate need and companies like this one prey on people who are in desperate need. ACN is still being investigated for a Ponzi scheme and thinks because Donald Trump swore by it is now ''Untouchable'' . When this investigation is threw and all the people who want expensive cars ,houses , and prostitutes are getting Butt raped in jail Mr. Donald Trump will come forward saying he had no idea they were doing such things. These companies will go above and beyond when they have the finances to do so. Greed is the ultimate reason. Mr. Erik Batista lost more than 98% of his fortune because he said he had barrels of oil that didn't exist. Cost him 34.5 billion dollars. Greedy greaseballs always lose in the end. Throw all of them in a state prison to get fudged packed.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you! I´m brazilian, I was kind of desperate! That time I was really in need ! And then a "friend" told me about Telexfree, he said he was making money... I didnt think twice! That´s why Telexfree is in my life now... Do I regret? Every single day... I´m pretty sure our courts or government or, I really dont know, is going to keep our money far far away from us and we´ll never see it again.
DeleteI have seen people being so cruel, just judging us, as they never made a mistake in their whole life! Here in Brazil they make jokes, laugh about it and so on, people, its not funny!! It was my money, my mistake, I never tell anyone to do the same (to buy Telexfree Voip or so...), thanks God I didnt!
.....time wil tell
ReplyDeleteOf course, time is the final judge of us all, but who can wait that long? We need to make our decision NOW based on ALL the evidence available.
DeleteWhile your statement is entertaining AND TRUE to a point, lets take that closer look at greed. A company like EXXON who can show a 38 Billion dollar quarter, and the fact that their main headquarters are located offshore and the fact that the USA is or shares the number 1 and number 2 exporter of oil spot, then tell me why are oil prices so high and don't tell me it's supply and demand, IT'S GREED, and as long as the government allow taxes infrastructure and such to remain the way they are companies will always make people pay. You have to understand for the most part people who come out and brag of their new shiny car or their new house would never have those things if it were not for opportunities like this.If we could have forward site wouldn't that be great, but as I asked before, can anyone, (in short time that is) tell weather a company is legit or not. Take AMWAY or HERBAL LIFE for instance, they both,(if you want to sell for them) require the affiliate to buy the product on a monthly basis THEN sell. Suppose you buy this inventory and for some reason can't sell it.The company is off the hook because they sold product. Should they be investigated because this poor person thought it was a good opportunity but now they are out $300.00 or whatever the requirement is. They joined this company because they saw an opportunity to make money.Kasey you completley ignored my question about someone buying into the stock market and the risks associated with it and who is to blame when the stock they invested in goes under. Their are many companies brought to these markets DESIGNED TO FAIL.They go through the IPO requirements then wow they are on the NYSE or other exchange. Now before anyone realizes the company in a few months goes under never to be herd of again until someone takes a closer look at the books and says again wow this company was doomed from the start.You can make a class action suit but what will you get, the head of the company in jail,yes maybe but that's little consolation to the poor bugger who invested in it. So at the end do you feel sorry for the poor bugger who thought he was investing in a real or viable company, NO, he took that risk. The other question of mine which was ignored was what other companies do you consider bad MLM's. I'm sure you could name a bunch and you might be right but go ahead anyway and name a few.
ReplyDeleteThanks
John
Your arguments seem to be founded on a series of misunderstandings.
Delete1) DSA members are required to accepts returns and refunds, and Herbalife / Amway are in the DSA (founding members, IIRC).
2) If you cannot tell whether a company is legitimate or not, then perhaps the prudent thing to do is to find something that's more reliable or researchable. If you continue despite the lack of information, then you've chosen to take on the risk, have you not?
But if you are being told LIES, rather than simple lack of info, then there is deliberate fraud, isn't there?
3) But it is also interesting in that you've chosen to compare participation in companies as investments, which is a whole new area of problems, as Zeek was mainly prosecuted as "unregistered securities", not merely as a ponzi scheme (financial fraud). Herbalife and Amway never tried to portray themselves as investments.
4) That's the whole point of this blog, about how people should NOT be persuaded by bad PR, with bad arguments, cherry-picked "truth" to support a false narrative designed to entice him or her to put money in, rather than do the full 'due diligence' and know the parts 'they don't want you to know'.
5) I don't name bad mlm companies, but rather bad behavior / bad arguments, which are often industry-wide, though sometimes I do use specific company examples. They are hardly unique.
I'm sorry Kasey for not answering your statement at the end of your last blog.I use their service,(voip) to make calls to Brasil almost every day.They do have a real service and they are in the industry they claim to be in.
ReplyDeleteThanks
John
Then the question is why would you pay $50 a month when Skype call, from US to Brazilian landline, is only $13.99 a month for unlimited calls (to any landline in Latin America)?
ReplyDeleteWhen we buy through our back office it cost us $5.00 and that is for 3000 minutes to either land lines OR cell phones.You should really know a little more about a company before you quote price's don't you think? Also you have to have the Skype app on your smart phone, now I could be wrong but this is what I heard.You don't need an app with this service.
ReplyDeleteThanks
John
I almost forgot to add that these calls are good to over 60 countries. Where can you find that kind of pricing power.
ReplyDeleteThanks
John
How did you sell it if you don't even know if you need a computer / app or not?
DeleteAnd how do you explain that "AdCentral" thing, which is the *real* reason TelexFree was shut down?
Hi casey. You may want to join it to figure this out. It bIG money Dude.Get and keep your mouth shut. I am an expert. I anlayzed Telex free. One could think it is PONZI. But I try to investigate deeper. Did you know the fact is telexfree 99 is real?
DeleteI don't know if this product is for you. For those who need it it is the greatest product. CAlling card. Telex free99 is a no pin long distance card letting you call to the world. Thats BIG market Dude. Think about millions trying to call to the World. millions are to be made. Think and Think again.
here is my site
www.telexfree.com/traditions
please review and contact me personnaly
I know that one certain part of TelexFree, provided by DiskAvontade, is some real phone service, from unknown provider.
DeleteI also know you can buy it directly from DiskAvontade, without the illegal parts. And DiskAvontade is operated by Wanzeler, one head guy in TelexFree.
So what does that make TelexFree? You tell me. (Oh, and go check if DiskAvontade's prices are higher or lower than TelexFree, then tell me why that is so)
On the 1st matter, I'm not sure I understand the question, please rephrase.
ReplyDeletePlease show me the minutes of the meeting explaining the reason was their Adcentral setup as being the reason for the shot down so I to will understand the reason also other then the judge in Acre stating what she did.To be fair I have not read the order which I probably should.
Thanks
John
Please go do that... Since you have been arguing from... ignorance?
DeleteKasey, I don't mind arguing points with you but to say i'm doing this out of ignorance is not cool.
ReplyDeletePlay nice and keep to the subject.
Have you read the the minutes yourself? I would love to read your interpretation of them.
Thanks
John
So you don't agree that arguing without sufficient facts is arguing from ignorance?
Deleteor you just object to the term even though you admitted to the definition?
Maybe using the Latin version is better? Argumentum a Ignoratium? :)
You are still not sticking to the subject. Have you read the minutes or should we both review the definition of ignorance?
ReplyDeleteJohn
I thought the subject is you admit you didn't look into adCentral, one of TelexFree's "multiple stream of income"?
DeleteThough I agree that the original charges from Ministry of Finance and PP office of Acre did not mention Ad Central. Their main problem is with 99TelexFree, the MLM aspect of TelexFree.
So why doesn't Yimpactus or TelexFree have a license with Anatel? How do they operate VOIP without one?
@JohnH
ReplyDeleteChang asked me to fill in some details, e.g. about the prices. I also tried to read through the different posts, but most of it was actually some sort of general discussion between the two of you, lasting for several days.
The VoiP subscription can be relevant if TelexFree actually has real retail customers. Your statement "60+ countries" will be very little relevant if TelexFree only are active in a few of them. I identified it to be a "marketing statement". If you want to make claims like that, then you should also be ready to fill in details about customers and countries.
The VoiP subscription is more like a membership fee, only the first month is mandatory. People will need to buy the subscription to become promoters, and first then can they invest in AdCentrals. People can let the invoice remain unpaid after the first month, and that's the commonly used method. Even the members in countries where the service didn't work had to pay the membership fee.
From memory:
Price for the VoiP subscription is/was $49.90 or $49.95.
Commission first month: $44.95
Commission next months: Matrix commission $1 / 5 levels deep
You can correct those numbers if you want to, I didn't bother to refresh my memory.
The VoiP subscription is also used for qualifying purposes, to qualify for different commissions. People can generate fake customer accounts from their back office, at a net cost of $5 (that's why I listed the commissions). People can also use it for sales purposes / recruitment tool (e.g. sponsor a new affiliate). They can also use them as "sub accounts".
I'm pretty sure you can find solutions so you only need to pay $5 per month.
I got my information about back office details from "Scott Miller TelexfreeTrainer" on Youtube, around August 2013. He has later removed some of the videos, some of them revealed too much about the program.
Why people don't focus on the 99TelexFREE subscription is simply because it isn't important.
@JohnH
ReplyDeleteI can probably answer the questions about AdCentrals. The VoiP service is a legitimate product, but the AdCentrals doesn't have any functions at all as a product. People pay $289 for the right to earn $20 per week for 52 weeks. The typical investment is much higher.
It could have been a legitimate opportunity if the daily ads had generated any revenue for the company = clients paying DIRECTLY for the ads, or revenue generated INDIRECTLY e.g. through sale of VoiP subscriptions (if the ads had attracted many retail customers).
As it is, old investors are paid from the money coming in from new investors.
TelexFree also has a reinvestment component, "if you want to earn more, simply buy more AdCentrals". Reinvestment of payouts to the back office will prevent people from withdrawing too much cash, but it will not bring in any fresh money. It can be compared to the reinvestments in ZeekRewards, where people could reinvest RPP "daily profit share". A component like that is fraudulent in itself, it generates liabilities not backed up by any money.
TelexFree also has potential tax evasion component(s). It involves the sub accounts the affiliates can generate themselves. Newly recruited affiliates can pay DIRECTLY to the recruiter, and the recruiter can use "internal funds" to pay for the AdCentrals. The method is commonly known and commonly used in some teams.
That is a good question, I do not know but then again I never pretended to know all about the company. I do like the information you provide me also so I can understand a little more.
ReplyDeleteHalf of Brasil's congress doesn't even know what VOIP is which was admitted in one of the hearings Carlos gave testimony. Carlos asked, do you, meaning a congressman, know what VOIP is and his reply was no. So they are trying to make rules on a subject up until now they admit knowing nothing about. It seams their first instinct is do disable the company and protect the people which I do commend them for but after it is shown the company is viable, they are selling the voip service which they have the right to do like any other company they should back off. I assume you know the money was transferred from Banco do Brasil to another bank in Acre close to the judge.The judge argued she would allow the company to distribute money back to those who made no profit but now she is reversing that decision and saying she will not release the money. Do you know where that money will go eventually, into thin air. What she did to the people was much more damaging then the company could ever do.
Thanks
John
The VoiP service is legitimate in itself. The AdCentrals are illegal. And most people are actually buying the AdCentrals. Much more money have been spent on AdCentrals than on VoiP subscriptions. 95% illegal is still illegal.
DeleteI haven't focused on the VoiP subscriptions, other than that I have asked people about customers, ads and similar stuff. Very few have any real customers, so I decided to stop asking people about it long time ago.
We have much more details about the situation in Brazil over at behindmlm.com. That website had 5 or 6 Brazilians posting regular updates from June 2013 to September 2013. It was relatively quiet between October and December. There are 4 or 5 new stories there from January 2014.
Here's a link to a list of TelexFree articles there:
http://behindmlm.com/category/companies/telexfree/
I can answer genuine questions about most things if I know the answers.
I have read the court order for the freezing of assets long time ago, and I have also read translated Brazilian news stories. Some money has been transferred to the court, to distribute to the unfinished hotel TelexFree was building. I don't know the details for that, but it was done to preserve assets. The hotel was half finished, and the money invested in it would have been lost if they had stopped paying the contractor. I can potentially try to find the details at behindmlm.com.
The judge has never allowed the company to distribute any money. That's rumours. And that's also why the court controls payouts to the unfinished hotel. It will not allow TelexFree to handle any of the frozen funds.
We have probably 40 - 50 articles about TelexFree at BehindMLM.com. Most of them are about the situation in Brazil. I will recommend you to take a look at the link I gave you. Comments can be posted in every article, e.g. if you have specific questions about something in that article (or one of its comments). If you have general questions "Where do I find something?", then post it in the newest TelexFree article.
And you'll need to be reasonable. We don't remember everything, and we can't spend too much time looking for details.
@JohnH
ReplyDeleteHere's some sources for some of the information you asked for.
1. The court paying the contractor (unfinished hotel):
First mentioned in post #54.
http://behindmlm.com/companies/telexfree-bankruptcy-denied-bbom-fraud-thwarted/#comment-182635
Brazilian source "Globo"
http://g1.globo.com/ac/acre/noticia/2013/10/justica-do-ac-libera-parte-do-dinheiro-para-telexfree-sanar-dividas.html
2. Freezing of assets in June 2013 - notice from the court
http://behindmlm.com/companies/telexfree-bankruptcy-denied-bbom-fraud-thwarted/#comment-177079
It's mentioned in post #23 in the same article. The court froze "up to" 6 billion Reais, but the actual amount was probably 600 million.
We have mostly used the Brazilian online newspapers "Globo" and "ig.economia" as sources.
To Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI assume you go from time to time onto their Facebook page at the bottom of the Telexfree site.
Please watch the latest video where Carlos reads a plan proposed by the Ministeiro do Trabalho about letting Telexfree to repay those affiliates who did not make any money and the penalty to the company if it's not done within 30 days.Telexfree will not accept this as a condition of repaying.It goes on and on but if you have time and a translator (if you have one) it would be worth your time.
Thanks
John
I'm M_Norway, a regular contributor at behindmlm.com. The "anonymous" name here is because I didn't have any of the other profiles listed.
DeleteI don't have that type of video translator, it will only offer subtitles in Portuguese, so it won't make much sense trying to use it.
Carlos Costa has notoriously released false information in videos, typically with him waving some papers. I stopped watching them long time ago, I prefer to wait for any of the Brazilians to post a summary. The latest fine he got was for not delivering the database to the court, at January 14. The latest video I know about is the one where Carlos Costa is surrounded by books. I didn't bother to watch it.
Hi M_Norway,
ReplyDeleteThe books you referenced to were around 40 or so and contained every promoter in the company, I believe only on the Brazilian side, which is the only part she could control. I can't remember the dates but the company had at the time 20 days to deliver the database to the court,better said the Judge wanted the database. The judge said she has a company to go through the whole database to find out exactly how much was owed. She said she would have an answer in 20 more days but the company she had refused saying they would not be able to give any results in that time period. Now the judge dropped that and moved on to requesting other info. The Judge keeps changing the rules as she goes and believe me when I say at the end of this the money, which I don't think she had any law backing her up, moved the money from central Brasil to Acre will "disappear in thin air". That's only my oppinion.
@JohnH
DeleteYou have got most of the answers I can give you. I'm a former sales man, and will typically cover some specific details about products, marketing, revenue etc., and most other "general topics". I will typically know more about some sales related details than most others, but I will know less about some other aspects of a case.
I'm not specialised in anything, I mostly have an overview of the case rather than detailed knowledge about the court case in Brazil. Some of the Brazilians over at behindmlm.com have probably much more knowledge than me about Carlos Costa's videos. I have never used Carlos Costa as a source, so I'm not the right person to discuss the videos.
I know Carlos Costa has been fined 2 times, the last time for failing to deliver the database. The normal way will then be to request the database from the other TelexFree partners (Merrill, Wanzeler). I can't predict any "normal way" if Merrill / Wanzeler fail to deliver it. That's not about "changing the rules", it's a normal way for the court to request information. The court is simply following the rules for Civil Procedures
I gave you a link to what the transaction of money was about, the payment to the Best Western contractor. That's the only transaction I'm familiar with.
As a sales man, I generally know WHERE to find information, but I won't try to memorize any details. I will know enough to point people in the right direction, to where they can find information themselves. I also know enough to understand what people are asking for if the questions are relatively relevant. But the latest court order will be too specialised for me to answer in any details (it's not relevant for me to know all those details).
Some of the Brazilians posting at behindmlm.com probably have some answers to some of your questions. They are much closer to that part of the case, much closer to the details. But you can't expect people to know each and every detail.
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI know it's difficult to know all the answers, that's why I don't get upset when Chang and I get a little testy with each other. I want answers also but i do look at things from both sides. I suppose with Zeeks they didn't put up much of a fight or maybe it's just that I'm late to the party.I had a friend who hounded me for months to join Zeeks. I looked at it but something didn't smell right to me so I backed off. When I looked at telexfree, which was about a 7 month look, nothing really stuck out to me as being odd except for how do they show revenue. We, the promoters for the most part don't see the results of the ads we do except through our own direct sales etc. and from what I understand they don't have to revel those numbers since they are not a public company.I can only say I have been with then,(as a promoter only) for over a year and as I stated before except for s few screw ups of forgetting to do the ads I am very happy.Except for a few bugs in complience which they will work out I think the company will be fine,or at least I really hope so.
Thanks
John
Chang brought in me to answer some details for the products. I have discussed many different solutions directly with affiliates, so I'm relatively familiar with that topic.
DeleteI'm poorly updated on the situation in Brazil from October to December 2013 (the quiet period). The most important update there is from January 2014, some rather vague information about investigation in the US. Source for that information was the Public Prosecutor in Acre, but the information was rather vague.
Carlos Costa isn't a source I will bother to use. He has produced misleading information time after time and has been caught each time. You can use him as a source, but I won't.
Ponzi schemes can work when they're able to trick the brain. Zeek worked because people already believed in the idea about how profitable penny auctions were. The back office also simulated payouts as "Cash available". Some Zeek clones didn't work that well because of small details they had changed, they simply didn't feel right.
TelexFree works because people believe they are being paid for posting the ads, because they THINK like employees. You will realize that there's something wrong if you think like a business man or accountant, if you analyse where the money comes in and goes out from the business.
it's really unfortunate that any information from both sides is incomplete however TELEXFREE is a company that has had a tremendous growth in the digital platform to the point that the ALEXA RATING is putting them on the upper 900's which means that is real popular in the WEBB at the same time they have millions of people putting adds on the internet every single day generating income from all the impressions as well as the adds that are clicked anytime anyone opens the add or see and ad for TELEXFREE , as far as the VOIP the software works great I have been giving that to some people for the first month to try it and them selling it to them the second month so far I have not had any complaint about not delivering some customers have had cancelled their plans from the Mobile carrier ($ 10.00 average per month )or not buying calling cards to call their country ( calling cards usually cost $5.00 and gives you only around 120 minutes at the most ) I gave one card to a person who called Philippines and was telling me that the last bill was outrageous just for a few times that he had called trough his carrier and even just as I saw the mentioning that there are a lot of carriers of VOIP the regular people doesn't know that and id you go to almost any store in TEXAS that wants to profit from the HISPANIC MARKET you will see calling cards on the wall for sale , it's also true that they call AD CENTRAL and AD CENTRAL FAMILY well it's a package that they sell that has a certain number of VOIP packages included in them so you can promote and sell and it does pay you to put the adds on the computer just like when you buy any other MLM program for example MARY KAY , AVON , HERBALIFE , JAFRA , ORGANO GOLD and many other you have to buy a starting package and work the package if you don't work you don't earn as it is with TELEXFREE if you are lazy and don't do you ads you don't make any money as far as them ( people ) you have to invest with a secured return it's a misrepresentation of facts all the MLM programs require an initial investment with an unknown return all of the have a possible return if you work the system an example MARY KAY CLAIMS THAT YOU WIL MAKE 50% ON THEIR PRODUCTS IF YOU SELL RETAIL ( AIN'T THAT ROI ) same happens with TELEX FREE if you work and do what's requied you will get paid what about the people that don't do what's required do they get paid , well THE ANSWER IS NOOOOO and well we will have to wait to see the outcome of the BRAZILIAN COURTS as well as to see the outcome of TELEX FREE with its new products that can revolutionize the mobile phone industry with the new app that you will be able to use in any phone without having a contract with any carrier and also having a better price than the competition ( according to some sources ) ,and last according to some sources the future of the mobile phone is VOIP so you judge by yourself
ReplyDelete.
The problem is half of the people in TelexFree don't even KNOW about the VOIP thing. They only know put money in, get lots more money out.
DeleteDoes TelexFree VOIP have competitive prices in your market? And I do mean NEAR YOU. It doesn't seem to when compared to real VOIP leaders like Skype. Skype has unlimited calls to South America (landlines only) for $10 USD a month. Can TelexFree do that?
And please stop mentioning other programs. We're talking TelexFree, are we not?
You're right Kasey, There were people in Brasil who sold houses, cars, business to enter in TelexFree and look what happened, now they're not getting their money back and they are tired of the owners are doing nothing to return their money. The new website don't have the brazilian flag, but a lot of people are lying when they sign up in Brasil and put another country as their country.
ReplyDeleteHi everyone,
ReplyDeleteTime again to put my 2 cents in. I wanted to sit back and read to get other folks views.
Kasey, I would like to know where you get your figures from when you mention only half actually know what VOIP is. While I would agree their are those that would join not really caring about what the company does or products it sells. The only thing they care about is the money, and yes I would agree that's not smart but for the majority they do know what the company is all about.
You and I have been through this before about their pricing. Of cource to sell the VOIP at $49.90 doesn't make sense on the retail side but when a person joins you can buy the service through your back office for just $4.99USD, and I'm sorry but as prices stand you can't beat that with Skype, Vonage or any other service provider at this time. As far as the time limitations you have 3000 minutes per month as long as you keep renewing through your back office. Why not make the salary and be able to use the service at the same time. Oh and another thing to think about that is for landlines as well as mobile.
Thanks, John
As for half, I was being generous. Here's Interview of Brazilian prosecutor, who stated:
Delete"Especially because everyone I heard that invested in Telexfree, said that neither wore Voip, some did not even know what it is for." (auto-translated)
http://g1.globo.com/ac/acre/noticia/2014/01/promotora-do-caso-telexfree-espera-sentenca-ate-o-meio-do-ano.html
And did you just said that you're supposed to JOIN TelexFree to get the calls cheap, and you can't buy the TelexFree cheap without joining?
And how much does it cost to JOIN TelexFree again?
Do you really think you or the prosecutor would get a favorable response from anyone interviewed after Brasil was shut down? One of the governor's on the supreme court (from Acre) didn't know what VOIP was when they were questioning Carlos about the service.These people would say anything to anyone if they thought they would get or possible get their money back. If I just sold my car or my house to get into telexfree and the courts pulled the plug and I lost everything, I would be more upset at the Brasilian government for not at least giving me the chance to get my money back.It's a numbers game. I did say you have to join first but you make triple your money back and enjoy the service at the same time.What's wrong with that?
ReplyDeleteYou don't think about where your "triple money back" is coming from, do you?
Deletevcs estão nos USA, tem alguma notícia sobre a investigação da telexfree no USA?
ReplyDeleteNone thus far.
DeleteBut then, US law enforcement does NOT announce investigations. Why warn the criminals?
There's not such thing as easy money. The truth is that no one want to go to school, study and work hard to make your way through. Shame on these sharks, taking advantages of the least fortunate. Yes, it is one of those Ponzi Scams with a different label. Wait and soon, people will see the devastating destruction, and many will loose everything. I've never seen these kind of business use expensive product. They always use cheap stuff. Most people don't realize that the disaster will come later. I did my research. I have received many request to join these kind of business, and decline all of them. The FBI already start an ongoing investigation on TELEFREE and Herbalife.
ReplyDeleteIf FBI did start investigation they wouldn't tell us... or them.
DeleteCome to think of it, FBI usually don't do financial crimes. That's usually left to the Secret Service, who started as Department of Treasury agents.
Deletethe school system is a corporation trying to get every dollar out of you coming out of school in debut is not a accomplishment there is no such thing as a scam if you ask me because god gave us reason and we choose what we want to get into so let people do as they please don't try to control them because you know what is good for them what a joke human being are always want to be right and in control of other people life's when they don't even know themselves I think a business that brings people together I don't care if it is a pose scheme is good because that way they communicate with each other get out the house and try to build something for themselves other then wasting away in front of that T.V the biggest scam that ever was created lol go live waste money because money is only a tree respect other's and instead of judging try it for yourself a wise man once said believe nothing no matter who says it even if I said it unless it agrees with your own common sense and I will leave you at that live life stop wasting your time judging others let them make mistakes we live and learn and that the key to live 1 love goodbye or see you later
DeleteAnd what does that have to do wtih TelexFree? Nothing.
DeleteJust a short request from Mitz De Souza.
ReplyDeleteWould you please give a link or some real proof of yoru claim about the FBI already investigating Telexfree.
Thank you
John
I know that TelexFree in Brasil are doing the best they can not to have an audit, because they know that
ReplyDeletethey will find out that the company is a pyramid.
TelexFree is soon changing their compensation plan, why do you think they are doing that? Is not just to look like a regular MLM.
ReplyDeleteTelexFree is primarily a ponzi scheme, not MLM.
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThe reason I was told was to conform to US laws, but I know, who knows really why.
John
could someone please comment on the "bonds"that are used internally by the telexfree promoters ?
ReplyDeleteI don't know. But it sounds like some sort of promise which nobody should trust.
DeleteRemember, Costas is a liar. proven over and over again. I would NEVER trust anything TelexFree promoters say unless you manage to get independent (i.e. NOT related to TelexFree) confirmation.
Offering consulting to a company doesnt create an affiliation.
ReplyDeleteNever said there was an affiliation.
DeleteBreaking news: Joe Isaacs calls TelexFree "alleged crooks", resigns as consultant, after apologizing to the various state Public utilities Commissions.
ReplyDeleteThat's because the information they provided ISG-Telecom for the national roll-out of telecommunications certifications was bogus. TelexFREE claimed their revenues were from VoIP and not their Ponzi scheme and that the principles had experience, amongst other issues. Mr. Isaacs has a long standing in public of despising anything that resembles a Ponzi scheme (remember FHTM). It is no surprise that he wants to diss-associate with these guys after the SEC dropped the hammer on them last month.
ReplyDeleteTwo comments, more of the "close the gates after cows left" type
Delete1) Should have done better due diligence (yes, on the client)
2) It's pyramid scheme, not Ponzi scheme (FHTM is)
I have read recently where Joe is hanging with Barbara Bushe again....although new ventures they may be a couple again. He has recently started up smartandhandyrenos for those in the Palm Harbor Fl area that need Bathroom & Toilet remodeling.
Delete...but of course"Mr. Isaacs has a long standing in public of despising anything that resembles a Ponzi scheme..." yes he has been involved with the Russian Bride market, developing bikini models for promotional needs, diva bikinis. For a brief time the was forming a Bank (read tampabay biz journal 2005) The organizing group soon realized he had never formed Banks or worked as a Banking Consultant. He was using a website of a National Firm he had lifted much like the FHTM incident. There are many recorded cases where he did not file the necessary materials or adequately for individuals looking to launch a CLEC. Joe is always busy and innovative so just when you think he has vanished he is working another quick scam.
DeleteTo be honest, BA, I'm a bit tired talking about Mr. Isaacs instead of scams. I mentioned him as a part of TelexFree (and FHTM). I'd rather not make him center of attention here.
Delete